Advanced techniques and Tips

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Advanced techniques and Tips

Post by cooperverdon on Tue Jun 03, 2014 6:00 am

Alright, I think a section dedicated to advanced techniques, and tips that people have to help others execute them consistently, would be good for the forum. Here is my list of maneuvers that I consider advanced (please add to this list if you think of any).

Triple jumps
45° and 60° slopes with vertical wall backing
Vertical bounce block triples
Horizontal bounce block triples

Quad/Quintuple jumps
Horizontal bounce block 4 and 5 jumps from side

Corners (EddyMataGallos)
Corner kicks (top corner bounce block), and backwards jumps (bottom corner bounce block)
Corner landing (moderate advanced)
Corner momentum jumps (hitting a corner and walking a few frames to gather momentum, jumping higher than typically possible)

1 frame jumps, (refer to 01-2 metanet high scores)
Refer to EddyMataGallos' post 1-frame jumps, and his video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K20KUANxM-8)

Wall popping (SpartaX18)
I do have a tip for wall popping. Use 2 jump keys, and get good at chimneys. I can get 35 scores in chimneys relatively easily, but only gain 1 extra frame from a wall pop around 1 in 10+ tries, (never gotten 2 points with 500+ tries).

Thwump kicks (EddyMataGallos)

Hidden frames
Corner shoves (EddyMataGallos)
+1 frame traditional floor jumps
Head hitting (multiple small jumps or 3 long jumps)
Unobstructed (jumps of roughly 70% power and up)
(not advanced, unless the space to do it is small, worth trying at all locations when speed running)

Corner shoves (EddyMataGallos)

Low Jump
Refer to comments

The only tip I can really give is to bounce block triples, and that is that I find them easiest to execute if I make my first jump right as the bounce block reaches maximum displacement. Its obvious, but that's all I've got. All these techniques I find incredibly hard, struggling to get them 1 in 5, up to 1 in 30 times.
Was talking to Blackfire about 45° slope triples. All you need to do is at the base of the slope, hit jump 3 times as fast as you can, he told me that timing each jump by site is much too hard.


Last edited by cooperverdon on Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:52 am; edited 11 times in total
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Re: Advanced techniques and Tips

Post by SpartaX18 on Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:19 pm

Corner landing is easy in my opinion, jumping is slightly harder, but just need to do it slowly (certainly, more practice = faster jumping).

And two questions:

1.With "Bounce block corner jumps" You mean jumping off them from below?

2.What about popping?


Last edited by SpartaX18 on Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Advanced techniques and Tips

Post by cooperverdon on Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:32 pm

@spartaX18
Check out the map 03-4. Most corner landing/jumping is easy, but it can be tricky sometimes. I put it there because its another corner technique, and I find it pretty hard to get consistently.

By bounce block corners, I mean the propulsion you can get if you hit the corner of a bounce block and jump at right time. Works on all corners, top and bottom.

Totally forgot about popping, Ill put it in now.
Cheers
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Re: Advanced techniques and Tips

Post by EddyMataGallos on Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:37 am

You could put some titles, and some bold letters, so the list looks tidier. Also, the bounce block corner trick names are wrong: You should differentiate between top and bottom corners like this: corner kicks (top corners), and backwards jumps (bottom corners). They are different techniques (we already have names for them in v1.4).

Also, note that the tile corner jumps are not "true corner jumps". Only v1.4 players know this, but a true corner jump gives you extra power, (extra height, or length, or speed, or all). They are not possible in v2.0 since what causes them (a glitch in which the ninja gets into the tile and the game bumps it off) has been fixed. So basically you can jump in corners, that's true, but that's not a technical corner jump.

There is a way to get extra heigth for corners, but not by corner jumping, here's the trick: Corners are not a single pixel, if you fall into them with the proper angle and speed you will notice you can actually run a few frames on them. By doing this, you can jump on a corner above you, run as much as you can (a few frames) as if it was a slope, and jump. If done correctly you will get more heigth than if you had jumped from a flat surface on the same place as the corner is. But this is just using the surface of the corner, not a real corner jump.

There are some more tricks you could put in here, like the corner shoves, the thwump kicks and backwards jumps, etc.

Even though corner shoves are less present in Nv2.0, I do think that more angles are now possible, to the point that I think a new trick is present, the vertical corner shove.  I just did a vertical corner shove, which I don't think would have been possible in v1.4, you can check it out here:

www.thewayoftheninja.org/nv2.html?l=81414
Level: "Eddy The Fag" xD

Check the leaderboards, you can see the level was maxed before I did it, so I saved a frame.

@Sparta: You need to wait until you get max speed before wallpopping or you will lose time. Wall popping will just give you an extra frame, never 2. Also, the trick about jumping and gaining a frame should be here, as its important for speedrunning regardless it being easy. Also, its barely present in Nv1.4


Last edited by EddyMataGallos on Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Advanced techniques and Tips

Post by cooperverdon on Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:13 am

EddyMataGallos wrote:@Sparta: You need to wait until you get max speed before wallpopping or you will lose time. Wall popping will just give you an extra frame, never 2.

I could have sworn that 2 frames was possible. Am I going crazy? Or did they patch it?

Also, great comment, thanks for the input.


@eddy
Danielr used some momentum from a corner to get gold on this level "Triple Jump on Half Slap???". That is a real corner jump right?
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Re: Advanced techniques and Tips

Post by EddyMataGallos on Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:26 am

The list is great now, good job cooper :D

Regarding the 2 frame gain, I think you might be getting confused with walljumping at the beginning. In those tunnel levels (or levels that start with a small tunnel), if you walljump at the beginning in the starting wall you can save 1, or even 2 frames if done perfectly, compared to just running without doing the initial walljump. Regarding popping though, I've never seen 2 frames being gained. If you guys find an example though, I'd love to see it.

Finally, regarding dan's run, if you have "corner = little slope" conception that I explained in my post above (third parapgraph), that can be explained by saying that he just did a perpendicular leap (oh, this is another trick for the list, which we use a lot, when you are running in a slope and jump the opposite direction, and you gain a lot of heigth and completely invert the angle, thats a perpendicular leap, although in 1.4 its actually harder to do since there is a bug that causes the ninja to go off the grounds for some frames, and you can miss the jump).

Of course, at the end of the day, it all depends on how you define corner jump, and thats it. If we define it as just a jump on a corner that gives you extra power, then what dan did would qualify as a real corner jump. The main reason why I don't qualify all those things as corner jumps is because the actual mechanism that causes the corner jumps to give extra power is a bug that is not present in v2.0 anymore, hence they are technically impossible (at least by using the old, v1.4 technique) and thus, if any corner jump gives you extra power, you can see it will always be possible to explain it because the corner is not a single pixel, but has a bigger collision detection space or "hitbox", so it actually does indeed act as a small slope in which, if you do it properly, you can run and jump, hence gaining height as it would happen with any other normal slope jump. In the case of dan's run, you can see what he did is equivalent to a perpendicular leap.

As I said, it all depends on how you define corner jump though! To myself, I'll always consider a corner jump what I already explained, and hence what happens in Nv2.0, for me, are just regular behaviours that you can execute on a tile, but that don't involve the glitch. I guess the naming is not really that big of a deal haha, I'm just very picky, probably because I've been playing v1.4 so many years and I'm used to the other "corner jumps", but still I guess we could call this corner jumps too. I kept the names different because I just wanted to avoid v2.0 players getting confused if they ever go to v1.4/NReality, because cj there is actually a different concept/trick, but I guess that as long as we keep here, we could call it a cj too.

Damn, I tend to elaborate on my post too much xD
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Re: Advanced techniques and Tips

Post by cooperverdon on Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:34 am

Hmm, momentum jumps could be a good name. You hit the corner, gain some momentum with a small run, then jump to get a bit higher. Its definitely not a simple thing to do, but at same time, I can see that there should be a distinction between that, and a small glitch that arises from hitting a corner.

Eddy, search 'wall pop', and 2 out of the three levels, have 2 frame wall pops from both you and btonios.
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Re: Advanced techniques and Tips

Post by EddyMataGallos on Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:36 pm

cooperverdon wrote:Hmm, momentum jumps could be a good name. You hit the corner, gain some momentum with a small run, then jump to get a bit higher. Its definitely not a simple thing to do, but at same time, I can see that there should be a distinction between that, and a small glitch that arises from hitting a corner.

Eddy, search 'wall pop', and 2 out of the three levels, have 2 frame wall pops from both you and btonios.
Ohh, so you were indeed referring to the initial walljump, I'm sorry I thought that "wallpopping" was the trick in which you continuously jump inside a tunnel and gain a frame (as you know, with this technique you can gain a frame in tunnels, you need more that 1 jump though, at least 3 long one or a bunch of small ones). Alright, then indeed 2 frames are possible ;)

Maybe the jumping inside a tunnel trick could be added, I'm not sure how it works but I'd say its different from the 1 big jump trick, since it actually works in v1.4 too, while the big jump one doesn't. I also like that "momentum jump" name :P
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Re: Advanced techniques and Tips

Post by cooperverdon on Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:04 am

So in reality, a map that is just a flat tunnel 1 block high, there are 3 hidden frames. Id never really thought about it. Thats incredible.
Ive added horizontal jumps to the list under "+1 frame traditional floor jumps "
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Re: Advanced techniques and Tips

Post by EddyMataGallos on Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:31 pm

cooperverdon wrote:So in reality, a map that is just a flat tunnel 1 block high, there are 3 hidden frames. Id never really thought about it. Thats incredible.
Ive added horizontal jumps to the list under "+1 frame traditional floor jumps "
Yeah that is pretty unbelievable. Also nice idea ;)
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Re: Advanced techniques and Tips

Post by cooperverdon on Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:41 am

Eddy, or anyone who knows.
On the replays of 91-0, the last jump from Eddy, Cineva, and Kool is different.
Is it just jumping right at the corner, or do stop holding right just before/just as you jump?

Is this jump called anything?
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Re: Advanced techniques and Tips

Post by EddyMataGallos on Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:05 pm

cooperverdon wrote:Eddy, or anyone who knows.
On the replays of 91-0, the last jump from Eddy, Cineva, and Kool is different.
Is it just jumping right at the corner, or do stop holding right just before/just as you jump?

Is this jump called anything?
Oh yeah we forgot about that, its a trick we also have in v1.4 too, its called a "low jump", because you jump lower of course. In order to execute it, you have to press the opposite direction for as less as possible (1-2 frames) and then jump and press the right direction again. Also, it has the added difficulty that it can only be performed on the edge of the tiles, so yeah you have to run until the end, but thats not enough.

So basically, in my run, since I'm going left, what I do is: As soon as I'm about to reach the edge, I release left and press right for a couple frames, then I immediately start pressing left again and jump. If this is done correctly, and in the edge, you execute a low jump, hence losing less time in mid air.
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Re: Advanced techniques and Tips

Post by cooperverdon on Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:04 am

Alright, Ill practice these. Is is plausible to get them consistently, or is it too hard for that?
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Re: Advanced techniques and Tips

Post by SpartaX18 on Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:06 pm

It's easier for me to do a good pop if I pause right in the time when I hit the ground and then just fast tap 2 times (it's 1 tap less so there's more probability to do a good pop).

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Re: Advanced techniques and Tips

Post by EddyMataGallos on Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:56 am

Cooper, why do you mention bounce block triple jumps, and not bounce block double jumps, which are the most common ones. Double jumps are easy and the most versatile trick, since you can have a wide variety of angles and speeds (well you can have tough doubles in specific situations). Triple jumps on the other hand can be tricky. On the sides they are incredibly easy, but on the top, they can be tricky. I decided to record a quick tutorial for them for that matter.

Regarding the bounce block tricks, I'd put them in a section for themselves, including doubles/triples/quads off the sides and off the top. Regarding bounceblock kicks and backwards jumps they are okay in the corner section, just however you feel they fit better :D
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Re: Advanced techniques and Tips

Post by cooperverdon on Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:32 am

I could add doubles, maybe move things around, but I cant be bothered. That triple from the top is a good video, Im sure there are people that will be able to use the advice.
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Re: Advanced techniques and Tips

Post by Guest on Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:34 am

Hmm. All these technicalities remind me of a story. There was once a man who really loved french onion soup. He ate french onion soup until one day, the french onion soup store man told him, hey man, fck u stop eating french onion soup. So the man was like "hey man wtf i can eat what i want" and the owner was like, "fk u man i can make u not eat french onion suop" So this man is born in kenya and then goes to become president so that in last year of his term he can outlaw french onion soup.
and his name is barack obama

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Re: Advanced techniques and Tips

Post by Threat on Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:51 pm

Hey Eddy, by the way, there is a level that you and Btonios only beat and it has a bounce block and you guys jumped at the bottom right corner but from UNDER it. How?

Note that i will edit this post soon and include level name and author, etc.
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Re: Advanced techniques and Tips

Post by EddyMataGallos on Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:32 am

Threat wrote:Hey Eddy, by the way, there is a level that you and Btonios only beat and it has a bounce block and you guys jumped at the bottom right corner but from UNDER it. How?

Note that i will edit this post soon and include level name and author, etc.
Yeah, thats the bbbwj, only tip I can give you is to practice, you'll eventually get the hang of it. Its just jumping towards the bottom corner and jumping off it at the right time. If you hit the bottom side of the bounce block, you won't get, you have to scrape the corner.
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Re: Advanced techniques and Tips

Post by Threat on Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:32 pm

bounce block b wall jump? (whats the 3rd b ?)

and thx bro, i will practice [when i can]
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Re: Advanced techniques and Tips

Post by EddyMataGallos on Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:03 pm

Threat wrote:bounce block b wall jump? (whats the 3rd b ?)

and thx bro, i will practice [when i can]
No problem man, check the first post, its in there:

"Bounce Block BackWards Jumps (bottom corner bounce block) "
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